[MWForum](Fwd) Trying to write a procedure for a football
kickoff
Harvey Bornfield
mwforum@lists.mathcats.com
Sat, 06 Dec 2003 00:06:10 -0700
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Daniel:
I robustly agree, with Ray about the elegance of this solution; its sheer
brave simplicity is delicious! I am working on a more tedious program which
nonetheless will offer built-in directions of expanded flexibility in
experimentation, one which sets the curves up through the use of repeat
structures, offers the option of making multiple launches and leaving
trails in several colors onscreen to compare trajectories, as numbers are
altered.
This program allows for the adjustment of both angles and distance within
the repeat, as well as the repeat variable itself through the use of a
dashboard of sliders that lines the 'baseboards' of the screen. I think
that creating and modelling the use of discovery environments for enabling
"syndicated reruns" of simulations without superimposing upon the young the
requirements of the surgery of recoding variables on procedure pages might
be a good, magical, interesting and user-friendly direction to develop for
those MW teachers seeking to work more pictorially with less experienced
students.
On the social level of children's programming within a school or a computer
club,
It also makes it possible to teaches older students to "Acquire merit
badges" (and applause) by perfecting the art of developing interfaces,
paving the way for enabling them to become "Eagle Scouts", educational peer
tutors, who, like the circuit preachers of old, can be employed to recycle
through labs as TA's, sharing service with younger classes, sharing their
more accomplished programming skills and their analytical powers in the
service of enabling more success with large numbers of end-users still at
relative apprentice levels of encounter with MW.
This kind of "reusability" of the gifted and the older, diffuses the focus
of all learners upon the demands of just a single teacher, and might
multiply access to know how, increasing the watershed of simultaneous
learning in an impressive way.........
Ask "Daniel [PR [What's your take on the desirabiliity of this
direction?] ]
Broadcast [What's your take on the desirabiliity of this direction?]
(The BROADCAST primitive, not primitive at all, :-)))
exists in Microworlds EX)
Warm Regards,
Harvey
At 10:35 AM 12/5/2003, you wrote:
>Hi Daniel,
>That is a nice intuitive solution to the kicking problem. I had once used a
>parabolic formula to describe the motion path (typical of balls and
>missiles); however your method is far better for students to understand. I
>like the arbitrary but effective way you incorporate gravity.
>-----ray
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mwforum-admin@lists.mathcats.com
>[mailto:mwforum-admin@lists.mathcats.com]On Behalf Of Daniel Ajoy
>Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 8:34 AM
>To: mwforum@lists.mathcats.com; RATZEL, MARSHA; Ian Bicking
>Subject: [MWForum](Fwd) Trying to write a procedure for a football
>kickoff
>
>
>Hi Marsha,
>
>I used Ian's idea to create the attached project. I hope it helps
>you understand what he was talking about.
>
>Daniel
>OpenWorld Learning
>
>-------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:25:00 -0600
> From: "RATZEL, MARSHA" <MRATZEL@bv229.k12.ks.us>
>Subject: Trying to write a procedure for a football kickoff
>
>Such heady conversation makes me a wee timid to ask such a basic
>question, but I've got a problem and I'm stumped. I've been helping my
>students work on their animations. They are so thrilled and pushing me
>to learn more and more each day...so I'm way beyond my ability. Which
>is the whole point of this co-journeying isn't it.
>
>I have several students who want their animations to do things like kick
>a football or bump a volleyball over a net. Now I totally understand
>that I could create a nonlinear function that I am guessing I could
>include in a procedure that would accomplish that task. But my 7th
>graders don't know about nonlinear functions yet. They do know about
>creating x and y tables that have coordinates which record the path that
>those balls would take....but they don't yet know how to write the
>"rule" that describes how the x relates to the y.
>
>So I am asking for advice on how to help them write their procedures to
>accomplish their animations. Is there a way to do this? I've tried
>thinking about using some variation of repeating fd and rt and then
>changing at the top to fd and lt . We've not had much success with
>that. And I don't understand enough about seth to know how to do that
>either...but am wondering if that's the way I should go.
>
>Can anyone help me with my very basic understanding of MW 2.0 and my 7th
>graders? I'd appreciate your help and they would be so thrilled with
>their projects. Thanks.
>
>marsha
>
>-------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:40:54 -0600
> From: Ian Bicking <ianb@colorstudy.com>
>Subject: Re: Trying to write a procedure for a football kickoff
>
>On Dec 3, 2003, at 11:25 AM, RATZEL, MARSHA wrote:
> > Such heady conversation makes me a wee timid to ask such a basic
> > question, but I've got a problem and I'm stumped. I've been helping
> > my students work on their animations. They are so thrilled and
> > pushing me to learn more and more each day...so I'm way beyond my
> > ability. Which is the whole point of this co-journeying isn't it.
>
>This is an entirely appropriate question for this forum. If we talk
>about language design and that stuff, anyone should feel free to simply
>ignore that if they want to, and these sorts of questions remain just
>as on-topic.
>
>Which is mostly why I'm responding, but I'm not sure about the answer
>to your question. But I'll try... ;)
>
> > I have several students who want their animations to do things like
> > kick a football or bump a volleyball over a net. Now I totally
> > understand that I could create a nonlinear function that I am guessing
> > I could include in a procedure that would accomplish that task. But
> > my 7th graders don't know about nonlinear functions yet. They do know
> > about creating x and y tables that have coordinates which record the
> > path that those balls would take....but they don't yet know how to
> > write the "rule" that describes how the x relates to the y.
> >
> > So I am asking for advice on how to help them write their procedures
> > to accomplish their animations. Is there a way to do this? I've
> > tried thinking about using some variation of repeating fd and rt and
> > then changing at the top to fd and lt . We've not had much success
> > with that. And I don't understand enough about seth to know how to do
> > that either...but am wondering if that's the way I should go.
>
>Since you are modeling physics, I think it would be appropriate to use
>natural physics equations here.
>
>In that model X and Y are separate -- the Y is controlled by gravity,
>while X stays the same (as the ball keeps the same forward velocity).
>To avoid complicated equations, you should just start off with a X
>speed and a Y speed (I'll call them :XSPEED and :YSPEED). And we'll
>make up a number that represents "gravity", :GRAVITY. And so it
>doesn't go forever, we'll stop the procedure once the ball falls below
>:MINY (ground level). Then use XCOR, YCOR, and SETXY to do the
>function:
>
>TO KICK :XSPEED :YSPEED :GRAVITY :MINY
> WHILE [YCOR > :MINY] [
> SETX XCOR + :XSPEED ; move ahead by :XSPEED
> SETY YCOR + :YSPEED ; move ahead by :YSPEED
> MAKE "YSPEED :YSPEED - :GRAVITY ; decrease :YSPEED each time
> ]
>END
>
>I'm not familiar with MW, so I'm not sure if it's called XCOR, POSX, or
>something else, but it's intended to get the X position of the turtle.
>
>This is a great lesson in physics and trajectories as well -- maybe if
>you teach them SETX/SETY and XCOR/YCOR you can guide them to come up
>with this procedure on their own.
>
>--
>Ian Bicking | ianb@colorstudy.com | http://blog.ianbicking.org
>
>-------------------------
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge
which comprehends mankind, but mankind cannot comprehend."
Ludwig van Beethoven
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Daniel:<br><br>
I robustly agree, with Ray about the elegance of this solution; its sheer
brave simplicity is delicious! I am working on a more tedious program
which nonetheless will offer built-in directions of expanded flexibility
in experimentation, one which sets the curves up through the use of
repeat structures, offers the option of making multiple launches and
leaving trails in several colors onscreen to compare trajectories, as
numbers are altered.<br><br>
This program allows for the adjustment of both angles and distance within
the repeat, as well as the repeat variable itself through the use of a
dashboard of sliders that lines the 'baseboards' of the screen. I think
that creating and modelling the use of discovery environments for
enabling "syndicated reruns" of simulations without
superimposing upon the young the requirements of the surgery of recoding
variables on procedure pages might be a good, magical, interesting and
user-friendly direction to develop for those MW teachers seeking to work
more pictorially with less experienced students. <br><br>
On the social level of children's programming within a school or a
computer club,<br>
It also makes it possible to teaches older students to "Acquire
merit badges" (and applause) by perfecting the art of developing
interfaces, paving the way for enabling them to become "Eagle
Scouts", educational peer tutors, who, like the circuit preachers of
old, can be employed to recycle through labs as TA's, sharing service
with younger classes, sharing their more accomplished programming skills
and their analytical powers in the service of enabling more success with
large numbers of end-users still at relative apprentice levels of
encounter with MW. <br><br>
This kind of "reusability" of the gifted and the older,
diffuses the focus of all learners upon the demands of just a single
teacher, and might multiply access to know how, increasing the watershed
of simultaneous learning in an impressive way.........<br><br>
Ask "Daniel [PR [What's your take on the desirabiliity
of this direction?] ] <br>
Broadcast [What's your take on the desirabiliity
of this direction?] <br><br>
(The BROADCAST primitive, not primitive at all, :-))) <br>
exists in Microworlds EX)<br><br>
Warm Regards,<br><br>
Harvey<br><br>
At 10:35 AM 12/5/2003, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Hi Daniel,<br>
That is a nice intuitive solution to the kicking problem. I had once used
a<br>
parabolic formula to describe the motion path (typical of balls and<br>
missiles); however your method is far better for students to understand.
I<br>
like the arbitrary but effective way you incorporate gravity.<br>
-----ray<br><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: mwforum-admin@lists.mathcats.com<br>
[<a href="mailto:mwforum-admin@lists.mathcats.com" eudora="autourl">mailto:mwforum-admin@lists.mathcats.com</a>]On
Behalf Of Daniel Ajoy<br>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 8:34 AM<br>
To: mwforum@lists.mathcats.com; RATZEL, MARSHA; Ian Bicking<br>
Subject: [MWForum](Fwd) Trying to write a procedure for a football<br>
kickoff<br><br>
<br>
Hi Marsha,<br><br>
I used Ian's idea to create the attached project. I hope it helps<br>
you understand what he was talking about.<br><br>
Daniel<br>
OpenWorld Learning<br><br>
-------------------------<br><br>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:25:00 -0600<br>
From: "RATZEL, MARSHA"
<MRATZEL@bv229.k12.ks.us><br>
Subject: Trying to write a procedure for a football kickoff<br><br>
Such heady conversation makes me a wee timid to ask such a basic<br>
question, but I've got a problem and I'm stumped. I've been helping
my<br>
students work on their animations. They are so thrilled and pushing
me<br>
to learn more and more each day...so I'm way beyond my ability.
Which<br>
is the whole point of this co-journeying isn't it.<br><br>
I have several students who want their animations to do things like
kick<br>
a football or bump a volleyball over a net. Now I totally
understand<br>
that I could create a nonlinear function that I am guessing I could<br>
include in a procedure that would accomplish that task. But my
7th<br>
graders don't know about nonlinear functions yet. They do know
about<br>
creating x and y tables that have coordinates which record the path
that<br>
those balls would take....but they don't yet know how to write the<br>
"rule" that describes how the x relates to the y.<br><br>
So I am asking for advice on how to help them write their procedures
to<br>
accomplish their animations. Is there a way to do this? I've
tried<br>
thinking about using some variation of repeating fd and rt and then<br>
changing at the top to fd and lt . We've not had much success
with<br>
that. And I don't understand enough about seth to know how to do
that<br>
either...but am wondering if that's the way I should go.<br><br>
Can anyone help me with my very basic understanding of MW 2.0 and my
7th<br>
graders? I'd appreciate your help and they would be so thrilled
with<br>
their projects. Thanks.<br><br>
marsha<br><br>
-------------------------<br><br>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:40:54 -0600<br>
From: Ian Bicking <ianb@colorstudy.com><br>
Subject: Re: Trying to write a procedure for a football kickoff<br><br>
On Dec 3, 2003, at 11:25 AM, RATZEL, MARSHA wrote:<br>
> Such heady conversation makes me a wee timid to ask such a
basic<br>
> question, but I've got a problem and I'm stumped. I've been
helping<br>
> my students work on their animations. They are so thrilled
and<br>
> pushing me to learn more and more each day...so I'm way beyond
my<br>
> ability. Which is the whole point of this co-journeying isn't
it. <br><br>
This is an entirely appropriate question for this forum. If we
talk<br>
about language design and that stuff, anyone should feel free to
simply<br>
ignore that if they want to, and these sorts of questions remain
just<br>
as on-topic.<br><br>
Which is mostly why I'm responding, but I'm not sure about the
answer<br>
to your question. But I'll try... ;)<br><br>
> I have several students who want their animations to do things
like<br>
> kick a football or bump a volleyball over a net. Now I
totally<br>
> understand that I could create a nonlinear function that I am
guessing<br>
> I could include in a procedure that would accomplish that
task. But<br>
> my 7th graders don't know about nonlinear functions yet. They
do know<br>
> about creating x and y tables that have coordinates which record
the<br>
> path that those balls would take....but they don't yet know how
to<br>
> write the "rule" that describes how the x relates to the
y. <br>
> <br>
> So I am asking for advice on how to help them write their
procedures<br>
> to accomplish their animations. Is there a way to do
this? I've<br>
> tried thinking about using some variation of repeating fd and rt
and<br>
> then changing at the top to fd and lt . We've not had much
success<br>
> with that. And I don't understand enough about seth to know
how to do<br>
> that either...but am wondering if that's the way I should go.
<br><br>
Since you are modeling physics, I think it would be appropriate to
use<br>
natural physics equations here.<br><br>
In that model X and Y are separate -- the Y is controlled by
gravity,<br>
while X stays the same (as the ball keeps the same forward
velocity).<br>
To avoid complicated equations, you should just start off with a X<br>
speed and a Y speed (I'll call them :XSPEED and :YSPEED). And
we'll<br>
make up a number that represents "gravity",
:GRAVITY. And so it<br>
doesn't go forever, we'll stop the procedure once the ball falls
below<br>
:MINY (ground level). Then use XCOR, YCOR, and SETXY to do
the<br>
function:<br><br>
TO KICK :XSPEED :YSPEED :GRAVITY :MINY<br>
WHILE [YCOR > :MINY] [<br>
SETX XCOR + :XSPEED ; move ahead by
:XSPEED<br>
SETY YCOR + :YSPEED ; move ahead by
:YSPEED<br>
MAKE "YSPEED :YSPEED - :GRAVITY ; decrease
:YSPEED each time<br>
]<br>
END<br><br>
I'm not familiar with MW, so I'm not sure if it's called XCOR, POSX,
or<br>
something else, but it's intended to get the X position of the
turtle.<br><br>
This is a great lesson in physics and trajectories as well -- maybe
if<br>
you teach them SETX/SETY and XCOR/YCOR you can guide them to come
up<br>
with this procedure on their own.<br><br>
--<br>
Ian Bicking | ianb@colorstudy.com |
<a href="http://blog.ianbicking.org/" eudora="autourl">http://blog.ianbicking.org</a><br><br>
-------------------------<br><br>
<br><br>
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</blockquote>
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<font face="Bell MT">"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind, but mankind cannot comprehend." <br>
Ludwig van Beethoven <br><br>
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