[MWForum]Re: arrays? (was: New to LOGO)

Jeff Knope mwforum@lists.mathcats.com
Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:36:44 -0800


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Hi Daniel, et al,

By "not globally" I meant MicroWorlds has no primitives for applying an =
operation to the entire contents of a list, which I think is how arrays =
are manipulated (though I repeat, I don't know about arrays).  Even that =
may not be a true statement.  Isn't there a recently added function in =
MW that means "do this to each"?  I can't seem to find it in the =
vocabulary.  And my own method, from habit, is to use tail recurrsion to =
work through the elements of a list until the list is empty.

You're right about there being no standard, and my follow-up pointed to =
a different version of Logo that supports arrays.

I was hoping you'd direct Jim to the OpenWorld Learning(?) websites that =
so nicely develop the list processing ideas.

It seemed to me Jim's question was primarily the result of coming to =
Logo from other languages that use other paradigms.  My intent was to =
focus his attention on the fact that Logo uses a different data model.

Jeff



----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Daniel Ajoy" <dajoy@openworldlearning.org>
To: <mwforum@lists.mathcats.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:19 PM
Subject: [MWForum]Re: arrays? (was: New to LOGO)


> On 15 Mar 2005 at 15:03, Jeff Knope wrote:
>=20
>> You may create a list of=20
>> any size.  You may add more to it, subtract elements from it, =
manipulate its=20
>> elements (recurrsively, not globally)=20
>=20
> Hi Jeff,
>=20
> What do you mean by "not globally"?
>=20
>> in any way, at any time.  Also, lists=20
>> may have any number of levels of complexity (lists of lists of =
lists...).=20
>> (Note too, "setitem" is not a LOGO primitive.)
>=20
> Logo is a family of different implementations of a language that has
> no standard. There are more than 120 different implementations:
>=20
> http://www.elica.net/download/papers/LogoTreeProject.pdf
>=20
> and some of them do have arrays. But I think you are right,
> lists pretty much can replace arrays in most problems
> (at least in most of the problems I've encountered)
>=20
> Does anyone can think of a counter-example?
>=20
> Daniel
> OpenWorld Learning
>=20
> PS. Besides, arrays can be simulated to a certain extent if
> you really need something like it.
>=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Daniel, et al,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>By "not globally" I meant MicroWorlds =
has no=20
primitives for applying an operation to the entire contents of a list, =
which I=20
think is how arrays are manipulated (though I repeat, I don't know about =

arrays).&nbsp; Even that may not be a true statement.&nbsp;&nbsp;Isn't =
there a=20
recently added&nbsp;function in MW&nbsp;that means "do this to =
each"?&nbsp; I=20
can't seem to find it in the vocabulary.&nbsp; And my own method, from =
habit, is=20
to use tail recurrsion to work through the elements of a list until the =
list is=20
empty.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You're right about there being no =
standard, and my=20
follow-up pointed to a different version of Logo that supports=20
arrays.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was hoping you'd direct Jim to the =
OpenWorld=20
Learning(?)&nbsp;websites that so nicely develop the list processing=20
ideas.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It seemed to me Jim's question was =
primarily the=20
result of coming to Logo from other languages that use other =
paradigms.&nbsp; My=20
intent was to focus his attention on the fact that Logo uses a different =
data=20
model.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jeff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "Daniel Ajoy" &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:dajoy@openworldlearning.org"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>dajoy@openworldlearning.org</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mwforum@lists.mathcats.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>mwforum@lists.mathcats.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:19 =
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: [MWForum]Re: arrays? (was: New =
to=20
LOGO)</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt; On 15 Mar 2005 at 15:03, Jeff Knope wrote:<BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt;&gt; You=20
may create a list of <BR>&gt;&gt; any size.&nbsp; You may add more to =
it,=20
subtract elements from it, manipulate its <BR>&gt;&gt; elements =
(recurrsively,=20
not globally) <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hi Jeff,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What do you =
mean by=20
"not globally"?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; in any way, at any time.&nbsp; =
Also, lists=20
<BR>&gt;&gt; may have any number of levels of complexity (lists of lists =
of=20
lists...). <BR>&gt;&gt; (Note too, "setitem" is not a LOGO =
primitive.)<BR>&gt;=20
<BR>&gt; Logo is a family of different implementations of a language =
that=20
has<BR>&gt; no standard. There are more than 120 different=20
implementations:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.elica.net/download/papers/LogoTreeProject.pdf"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.elica.net/download/papers/LogoTreeProject.pdf</FONT><=
/A><BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; and some of them do have arrays. But =
I think you=20
are right,<BR>&gt; lists pretty much can replace arrays in most =
problems<BR>&gt;=20
(at least in most of the problems I've encountered)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
Does anyone=20
can think of a counter-example?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Daniel<BR>&gt; =
OpenWorld=20
Learning<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; PS. Besides, arrays can be simulated to a =
certain=20
extent if<BR>&gt; you really need something like it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;=20
_______________________________________________<BR>&gt; MWForum mailing=20
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